concorde

Dare he even come back?

My first post in this forum and just happens to be on the negative side.

Andy

LOLOL why would I not dare to come back? However until the mods of the board move some of the discussion to the CSATM thread, and until some of the questions I asked of the detractors are answered (specifically is Loom.cc illegal Also is the project that Jude here doing with theloomster.net also illegal) then I don't have much more to say. The questions I have been asked have been answered - and there are many who would prefer this to be a discussion of the surf.. not the processor.

My lack of reply is more tinged with disgust at the antics of some.

slappy

HeyJude, if you've worked in the legal system for 26 years, then you clearly would know that nothing I've said would constitute defamation. I've not defamed Andy or anyone else and given the experience that you've posted above, you know that. End of story with that topic.

Next, Andy's businesses did not "fail." As a matter of fact, he's never even proven that he had any businesses, just an hyip and an autosurf. Both ponzis and nothing he's shown anyone over the last 6 months has proven otherwise. He walked away with a good deal of money after closing/selling both of them, while investors lost big time. That is not my opinion like many of you have claimed, that is fact.

Did he intend to scam? Maybe, maybe not. You say no, myself and many others say yes. If he didn't, why hasn't he provided any proof of the so called investments and losses? He admitted that he knowingly ran a ponzi with tft for at least the last month or so, so that in itself makes him a scammer. A ponzi is a scam. Someone who runs one is a scammer. No arguement there.

In closing, I know you like Andy and feel he's a decent guy. I feel he's a scammer and he's shown no proof to the contrary when he's been given every opportunity over the last 6 months to do so. The proof I have is a contract from a deposit in tft where he says I would get 180% in 30 days. Unfortunately for me and most members, ou money was used to pay other members. Sorry Heyjude, that clearly makes "Andy" a scammer.

Andy

Please note the following terms you agreed to. No one MADE you agree to these terms. As you bought up the term "contract" then you must acknowedge that the terms of participation formed part of your "contract".


You knew this was high risk and agreed that you could lose your money.

At this point after all this time you still fail to accept any of your personal responsibility. Now you can argue all you like that it is a weak fallback to rely on the terms and conditions.

In what part of your life do you use the same argument?. In what part of your life do you say "Well that doesn't matter I know I agreed that I might not get blah blah but you said I would get blah blah and even though I knew I might not get that I demand you give it to me . ."

Your failure to understand that the terms and conditions apply to you does not make me lack integrity.

As for the fact that I walked away with a goodly amount of money - once more that is your opinion it is not fact. Nor does you saying it is fact make it so.

I have no problem with your hanging around threads to tell people of my past failures. If that is what get's you off then go for it. However, you should also reveal your own failures, which are, among others, a failure to understand the terms that applied to you.



Terms and Conditions for The Finer Things.

Making your spend is your agreement to these Terms and Conditions. If you do not agree do not participate.
You acknowledge that you are of legal age to participate in this High Risk Program.


You acknowledge that your Country/place of residence does not specifically prohibit participation in on line opportunities.


You ackonwledge that this is not an offering of Securities as defined in any legislation in any country. This is a high yield opportunity and you acknowledge and accept the risks involved.

You acknowledge that there is a risk of the returns as stated not being paid. The Administration of the this website will exercise all care to secure the returns. In the event of the returns not being secured, the Administration of this website will communicate this to you by either email or by on-line forum.


You agree to hold all Administration harmless of any liability. You are investing at your own risk and you agree that a past performance is not an explicit guarantee for the same future performance. .....

JoseLeon

So if someone makes a program with those terms and conditions... are you saying that this Admin can scam all members when he wants?

No no... that only means that there is a risk if something bad happens and Admin it's not able to solve it (for example: bad trading, broker disappearing, etc), it's not an authorization to steal the money

And you should read about what "offering of securities" really means.

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Optional

It's a waste of your breath even trying to engage that Slappy twit in a sensible way Jude. :\

If Slappy and his type are going to be allowed to troll in the threads on this forum, spewing hate and being allowed to repeatedly post the same points over and again, just to try to take over the threads of his targetted victims (as he is trying to do with this thread), I doubt I will continue coming here personally.

Andy

Where on earth did I say that stealing the money was authorized? Your point is correct if something bad happens it happens.

Where on earth do you get that this is some authorization to scam? It is NOT. It is however, part of what Slappy agreed to. He, not I, bought up the term contract. I was just pointing out there was more to the "contract" than what he said there was.

If people cannot agree that they are taking a risk and that they could lose then they should not be doing anything in this arena. If they do agree that it is their responsibility for the risks they take, (and by making a spend you agreed to that) then.. the whole point is that you cannot then turn around and say "you promised . . ." as that promise is a figment of their imagination.

If you dont like hyips, then that is fine. You are entitled to that. Should you choose to participate, then do it like the adult you allegedly are.

If you don't like XLO2 fine.. move on.. By all means leave a comment that you don't like it and then be on your way.
Come back every week and moan again if you like.... up to you.

The "you" is generic and not specifically directed at any one "you".

And re offering of securities, this was not

I'm sorry but which part of that means that it was? It makes no difference where the definition comes from, this was not.

JoseLeon

I mean that if someone post about scamming and you answer about those terms and conditions then the answer is not right at all. Nothing more.

And if you accept money from third parties to give them a profit, then they are securities. I hope this answer and clarify my last answer.

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Andy

If someone is going to continue on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on that their OPINION is that I am a scammer then yes I am going to refer them to the terms they agreed upon.

I am sorry that you do not feel that is "right" but the facts are that there were losses (bad things) and there was no guarantee of a return. In terms of the contract that Slappy mentioned - he only mentioned one side of it - and that was his expectation to receive a return. He made no mention of his agreement that he knew there could be a loss and his agreement to not hold anyone liable.

Those are the terms he signed up with and those are the terms he cannot accept, Rather he continues to spew forth hate and angst. He continually looks for answers to his questions when they have been answered. He continues to call me a scammer. I will continue to point out that he agreed that he could lose and there is no evidence at all that I stole money. That is because I did not steal money.

Regarding your point about securities - the point that was in the terms is that no matter what definition of securities you might wish to apply from whatever part of the world this is not that. This is a high risk gamble. I do think that is pretty clear.

When you are told specifically that this is a high risk program, it is a little bit foolish to say (after the fact) oh I did not understand I thought this was securities. I am not suggesting your point is foolish btw I am posting in general about how people fail to read the terms under which they participate and then turn around later and say "that is not fair you are a scammer".

The part of the terms and conditions that was noted re securities was put there specifically to highlight the point you have made. Your definition of securities is correct. What you were were doing by participating in TFT was ackonwledging that that definition did NOT apply and that you were in a high risk program.

IF I had scammed people then I would be an absolute idiot for not creating some identity to offer a program. I know the mistakes - and while some may get some perverse enjoyment by rubbing my nose in that - I think that speaks more to their own state of internal conflict.

The surf program is going quite nicely btw and I am working with another potential exchanger for the ATM.

JoseLeon

I understand you now

"the point that was in the terms is that no matter what definition of securities you might wish to apply from whatever part of the world this is not that. This is a high risk gamble. I do think that is pretty clear"

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