XLOTwo on Page 11 at Nobullshit Network Forum

**gaby** · 07-14-2007, 01:13 AM

Andy, please do not bring the legality issue in discussion ...
Both the CSATM and the XLOtwo are completely illegal so do not even get started in this path ..

slappy · 07-14-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

The numbers are not adding up? Hmm ok the numbers do not look great but as for not adding up..... you are mistaken.

Lets see egold right now generates $700 per day in micro transactions (fee payments).. Now the ATM is no where near the size of e-gold but could it be? Yep.

Am I taking a gamble? Well yeah. High riske arena. The particpants are taking the risk that the processor will work.

Does this make it a ponzii? In your eyes perhaps. Legally no.

When you go to a supermarket you spend money. Your money goes into the till. The next customer comes along .. and the money you just spent pays their change.

Cash flow....

You could have number crunched from day one - you chose not to. Other people decided to take the risk. You have belittled their opinions.

The model works.. That much is plain.

And whether you like it or not a lot of people see it as a viable option. It is pretty sad that you think your opinion is the only one that people need to listen to. And that much is obvious by your posts on this and other boards.

Hmm, comparing an illegal autosurf to a supermarket. Just more misdirection and nonsense, which you're very good at; however, that kind of double talk doesn't phase me.

If you are not generating revenue to cover the 50% you're paying in 75 days, then regardless of what you say or think, yes it is a ponzi. That's not my opinion, that's fact.

The only person "belittling" others is you. You've done it to me, you've now done it to Andrew and I'm sure you'll do it to others before this discussion is over. I've simply tried to get some facts out of you and you've refused to provide any factual information throughout all this.

Now, I'm going to give you my opinion, which I normally don't do, because contrary to what you try and mislead people into believing, I always try to stick to the facts presented before me. My opinion of your atm is this. I don't see what person would have a need for it outside of criminals being involved in "shady" business dealings who need to hide where their money is going/where it has been, or people trying to evade the IRS or other taxing authorities. Who else needs to hide where there money is going or where it has been? Almost everyone simply sends their money straight to an exchanger, because there is no need to hide where it is going or where it came from. That is my opinion of your atm.

The numbers I used in my example were very low compared to what other autosurfs have achieved in both members and money needed to pay out, so I thought it was a very conservative estimate, trying to give you and the atm the benefit of the doubt. However, since you want to say my numbers are off, how about you give real, actual numbers and we'll see whether or not they add up to 50% in 75 days. For once, give some facts and the numbers will speak for themselves.

Andy · 07-14-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaby

Andy, please do not bring the legality issue in discussion ...
Both the CSATM and the XLOtwo are completely illegal so do not even get started in this path ..

Let's go here.

Please explain and justify your statement that CSATM is illegal.

You seem to be very sure of yourself. I would like to see the justification for it.

Whille you are at it comment on the legality of Loom.cc After all CSATM is the same thing.

Finally comment on the legaility of GoldNowBanc GoldGrams
and GoldNowBanc SilverGrams

After all they are the same thing..

Please be specific. You have specifically stated that CSATM is "completely illegal". Specifically justify your statment.

Or - if you cannot - please withdraw it.

**gaby** · 07-14-2007, 01:43 PM

You are an unlicensed MT (money transmitter).
You are not even a registered company.

Lets see now.
In USA:
Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT)
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Quote:

Subtitle B: Bank Secrecy Act Amendments and Related Improvements
(Sec. 359) Subjects to mandatory records and reports on monetary instruments transactions any licensed sender of money or any other person who engages as a business in the transmission of funds, including through an informal value transfer banking system or network (e.g., hawala) of people facilitating the transfer of money domestically or internationally outside of the conventional financial institutions system.

Quote:

Subtitle C: Currency Crimes
(Sec. 373) Amends the Federal criminal code to revise the prohibition of unlicensed (currently, illegal) money transmitting businesses.

Also
US CODE: Title 31,5330. Registration of money transmitting businesses

In Europe
Council of Europe - Council of Europe Convention on Laundering, Search, Seizure and Confiscation of the Proceeds from Crime and on the Financing of Terrorism (CETS no. 198)

Quote:

Section 2 – Financial intelligence unit (FIU) and prevention

Article 12 – Financial intelligence unit (FIU)

1 Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish an FIU as defined in this Convention.

2 Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to ensure that its FIU has access, directly or indirectly, on a timely basis to the financial, administrative and law enforcement information that it requires to properly undertake its functions, including the analysis of suspicious transaction reports.

Article 13 – Measures to prevent money laundering

1 Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to institute a comprehensive domestic regulatory and supervisory or monitoring regime to prevent money laundering and shall take due account of applicable international standards, including in particular the recommendations adopted by the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF).

2 In that respect, each Party shall adopt, in particular, such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to:

a require legal and natural persons which engage in activities which are particularly likely to be used for money laundering purposes, and as far as these activities are concerned, to:

i identify and verify the identity of their customers and, where applicable, their ultimate beneficial owners, and to conduct ongoing due diligence on the business relationship, while taking into account a risk based approach;

ii report suspicions on money laundering subject to safeguard;

iii take supporting measures, such as record keeping on customer identification and transactions, training of personnel and the establishment of internal policies and procedures, and if appropriate, adapted to their size and nature of business;

b prohibit, as appropriate, the persons referred to in sub-paragraph a from disclosing the fact that a suspicious transaction report or related information has been transmitted or that a money laundering investigation is being or may be carried out;

c ensure that the persons referred to in sub-paragraph a are subject to effective systems for monitoring, and where applicable supervision, with a view to ensure their compliance with the requirements to combat money laundering, where appropriate on a risk sensitive basis.

3 In that respect, each Party shall adopt such legislative or other measures as may be necessary to detect the significant physical cross border transportation of cash and appropriate bearer negotiable instruments.

Also take a look at articles 15 and 16 on page of the DIRECTIVE 2005/60/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL(url: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/Lex...en00150036.pdf)

slappy · 07-14-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Let's go here.

Please explain and justify your statement that CSATM is illegal.

You seem to be very sure of yourself. I would like to see the justification for it.

Whille you are at it comment on the legality of Loom.cc After all CSATM is the same thing.

Finally comment on the legaility of GoldNowBanc GoldGrams
and GoldNowBanc SilverGrams

After all they are the same thing..

Please be specific. You have specifically stated that CSATM is "completely illegal". Specifically justify your statment.

Or - if you cannot - please withdraw it.

I find it very humerous that "Andy" ask anyone for justification on statements they make. After taking member's money over 6 months ago, he has not provided "justification" of anything. Now people are examining is new program and once again, no proof, no justification; just his words, which mean absolutely nothing.

So, "Andy", before you ask someone else to proove it, how about you back your words up with something more than just other words.

Andy · 07-14-2007, 03:51 PM

It has been conformed by fincen that the US registration of money transmitters for operations outside of the US is not a requirement.

See the Alertpay ceo interview.

Additionally, CSATM is not a transmitter of funds. It is a storage system

Are you saying that Loom .cc is illegal? Are you saying that the others I mentioned are illegal?

I think (actually I am certain) that you will find that they are not illegal.

Remember the CSATM at no time receives any sort of funds.

Your statement that it is illegal is false.

Andy · 07-14-2007, 04:00 PM

I take it you are also saying Alertpay and STP are illegal too btw..

**gaby** · 07-14-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

It has been conformed by fincen that the US registration of money transmitters for operations outside of the US is not a requirement.

See the Alertpay ceo interview.

Additionally, CSATM is not a transmitter of funds. It is a storage system

Are you saying that Loom .cc is illegal? Are you saying that the others I mentioned are illegal?

I think (actually I am certain) that you will find that they are not illegal.

Remember the CSATM at no time receives any sort of funds.

Your statement that it is illegal is false.

What can i say ... take a look at the e-gold case ?

Do you exclude USA clients ?
Which country are you registered in and we can see if your country have specific laws for it.

You might also want to take a look at the about page of AlertPay (AlertPay.com-My Way To Pay)

Quote:

AlertPay is a Canadian Registered Corporation voluntarily compliant with the regulations of the OSFI (Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada), FINTRAC (Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada) and FinCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network).
AlertPay fully adopts the principle of ‘Know Your Customer’ (KYC) in order to ensure a safe and secure system for all our members. At the same time, we respect your privacy fully standing by our Privacy Policy ensuring your identity is secured with us.

All monies deposited with AlertPay are FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) and CDIC (Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation) pass through insured in the U.S. and Canada are held with federally chartered and regulated banks.

Corporate Details
AlertPay Inc is a Canadian Registered Corporation
AlertPay Inc is a United States Registered Corporation

Company Headquarters:
AlertPay Inc
5200 De La Savane, Suite 220
Montreal, Quebec
H4P 2M8, Canada

European Office (Processing Center):
11A Karyatidon
Lakatamela, 2311 Nicosia
Cyprus

Can you claim for CSATM, anything of the things AP claims ?

longfellaz · 07-14-2007, 09:08 PM

Do you think you could take the CSATM discussion to the proper thread??

This whole thread has been totally off topic.

No one has even mentioned the autosurf

Is there a moderator in the house?

We all know who thinks it's a scam.
We all know who thinks Andy is a scammer
We've heard it over and over.

Dang it's even in the scam folder.

If you're not interested move on.

Maybe some of us disagree and would like to discuss the surf in this thread.

Go start your own thread to bash Andy or was that the whole point of this thread?

Seems like Total BS to me.

IMHO

HeyJude · 07-16-2007, 02:26 AM

Longfellaz, I agree with you. However, I would like to address the post below,as it is in this thread and applies to the general issue of reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slappy

You say the following:

Simon posted:
It's just common courtesy not to say things like that to be honest, especially in an international forum. People may take offence to things you never intended to be offensive. HeyJude's opinion is just as valid as yours at the end of the day, regardless of the owner's reputation.

Slappy posted:
I would contend that it is common courtesy to not say things like a person is defaming another, or abusing another when those statements are completely false. She was talking about the law and lawsuits. I happen to know a little bit about both due to working in the system and when people spout off about things like defamation without really knowing what they're talking about, it is an insult to my intelligence. If someone speaks intelligently and is knowledgable about what they're speaking about, they will get all the "common courtesy" they deserve. On the other hand, if they write something that is completely false(like saying I defamed "Andy"), again, that is an insult to my intelligence. I'm sorry some people aren't use to hearing the blunt truth, but that is my style, like it or not.

Slappy some of the phrasing and terminology that you have been using throughout your posts could be interpreted as "defamatory". I merely suggested that you should not be making the claim that what you say is the truth, when you accuse Andy of being a scammer.

You can outline facts, but just because a business fails, it does not mean there was an intention to scam. It is the intention to scam that has to be proven. The fact that people lost money in TFT and even Andy's admission of mistake in the last stages of TFT, does not add up, in my opinion, to an intention to scam.

Quote:

when people spout off about things like defamation without really knowing what they're talking about, it is an insult to my intelligence.

Slappy, I have worked in the legal system for 26 years in Australia, Canada and the United States.

Quote:

In Australia, a person who 'publishes' an assertion of fact or a comment that

* injures - or, importantly, is 'likely' to injure - the personal, professional, trade or business reputation of an individual or a company
* exposes them to ridicule or
* cause people to avoid them

is guilty of a tort, ie a civil offence

.

Okay, it's not as simple as that. You could fight it in court and you may or may not win your case.

Slappy, I say again, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or the intelligence of anyone else in this forum, and I apologize to anyone who thinks that.

By saying that, you are saying that I am trying to be "above" your intelligence.

As far as I know, I have normal intelligence, though I admit..lol..that some of my friends and family may not agree with my self-appraisal!

I have based my comment on my own knowledge and experience. That does not mean I am right. And it does not mean you are right.

As I said, we will have to agree to disagree. I am perfectly happy for you to say that you don't agree with me, or that the law is different in your part of the world.

HeyJude