earnbyloaning.com on Page 27 at Nobullshit Network Forum

4ebl · 09-30-2007, 02:44 AM

Many of your statements are made with negative insinuations with nothing to back them up (kind of a guilty by (remote) association). allinvain has given you only a glimpse of why things are the way they are.

You could learn a thing or two from the Indian parable about the Elephant and the 4 blind men (each drawing conclusions with only part of all the available facts). If you are not familiar with it, check it out.

Again, if anyone is interested, there are many many more facts that clearly show why things are the way they are and what is under development. Nothing complicated, nothing sinister, nothing that would raise concerns. In fact, they probably would achieve the very opposite and create confidence.

nuk · 09-30-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ebl

Many of your statements are made with negative insinuations with nothing to back them up (kind of a guilty by (remote) association). allinvain has given you only a glimpse of why things are the way they are.

Actually, those statements are all backed up by extensive history in a bunch of HYIPs. Almost every HYIP follows the same course with some of the same events, and these are now showing in EBL. Following that path, the next big event will likely be some type of an announcement that EBL is going to go "private" at some point, offer people one last chance to join before they do, etc. etc. then they'll fade away a la Reality Millions/DO.

History also shows that everyone who calls ANY HYIP program a ponzi is right and the believers wrong 100% of the time.

The obvious part is that even if EBL were in fact earning sizable returns consistently as advertised and that no one else is achieving, they would in fact be running an illegal and unregistered investment operation. The SEC has already made it quite clear when "loans" are considered investments and it's only a matter of time before they come digging.

**allinvain** · 09-30-2007, 12:20 PM

Do you not allow room of any exceptions to your "hyipr rules"? And if not, what the heck are you doing here? Do you "invest" in any online programs or do you just enjoy being a naysayer in order to satisfy some sort of need for self-importance? Which one is it?

Now as far as the SEC issue, has it ever occured to you that if they were illegal according to the SEC's terms that they (EBL) would've been shutdown by now? From what I've heard from the admins, they've taken upon themselves at great expense to make sure that they don't have any legal issues with the SEC. As far as all loans being considered investments, I hope that next time you loan some money to your family/friends/whoever (and ask for interest of course) that you get a SEC securities license because if not you should be in jail - if you catch my drift.

nuk · 09-30-2007, 01:36 PM

What am doing here or anywhere else is because I enjoy it, obviously.
This place is a discussion about money making, correct? One of the first caveats in making money is not losing it.

As far as being a "naysayer," you're damn right. I made a lot of money in ridiculous ponzi schemes back in the day and the first thing I learned long before a lot of people is that the idea is to not believe anything and treat everything about it as completely ludicrous and without real legitimacy. It's the true believers who always get badly burned in these online "opportunites" and their tales of losses litter the net. If you always assume the program(and what the hell is a "program" anyway?) is a ponzi, the admin is full of BS, the members are semi-literate and hopelessly ignorant and any "helpers" like mods are sleazy pimps and/or total sheep, you'll probably be one of the few percent who make money in ponzis. Any time the line gets crossed into the realm of "hey, this could be REAL" is when you will do something foolish and LOSE.

If you're idea is to MAKE MONEY with EBL or anything else you come across in money making forums, you had better first treat it like it was a ponzi and accept that you're getting profits off of people who are going to get burned badly. If it turns out to be the first HYIP ever to be legal and legit, so much the better. To assume and to believe otherwise goes against everything that has come before.

The bit about EBL still operating so it must be legal is the kind of misguided naivete I see on MMG and TG all the time. CEP, 12DP, PIPS, PlexPay, Wellspring,insert-hyip-here were all "operating" before they got busted by the authorities. Some were even still actively paying out. The authorities move slowly but they do get around to it eventually. With EBL, you alredy have a core group of people reporting it to the SEC, state and FBI that will keep raising hell. With the step-up in enforcement the SEC has been showing recently and the fact that they have started monitoring what goes on in some forums(CEP is an example of them using forum membership to get info)means that their traditional slowness might be ending.

History is on my side because not a single "HYIP" has ever not been a ponzi scheme. You cannot name one. If you already know it's a ponzi and don't crae, that's one thing. If you believe it's all real and long-term, you will get burned or you will lead others into getting burned.

**gaby** · 09-30-2007, 07:07 PM

I could name a few, but i am not allowed by them ...

**allinvain** · 09-30-2007, 08:17 PM

hmm..taking the DD that has been done on EBL into consideration and having talked to the admins for countless hours I get the impression that EBL is in the same class as "FeederFund". If EBL is to close,l I think it will be a case of "take your money back and forget we ever existed". In other words it will close amicably without having to concuct some crazy story that their e-gold account has been hacked (*cough* ClubFX-Trader *cough*). Then again, I'm slightly biased since obviously I am a member.

I guess time will be the ultimate judge, but if anyone has any concrete evidence that EBL is running a ponzi scheme please stand up and speak. Otherwise it's all just accusations and counter-accusations which really get us nowhere.

Hmm, what I think would be great is if there was some sort of independent organization out there that does DD on online investment programs (or offline as a matter of fact). What I could imagine being done is that before a program can even earn the "seal of approval" it would have to place a bond with the organization in trust. The bond should be say $10,000 or some large amount so that it insures that the people behind the investment program have less of an incentive to take a hike. Strict due diligence would be done, including a thorough run-down on how they earn income down to the last detail. A non-disclosure agreement can be signed between this independant organization and the investment program if they admins so require. This should be acceptable only in the case where the admins are using some proprietary technology or finance techniques that they don't want revealed. But if they don't disclose their rating should be negatively affected of course. Fancier stuff could be perhaps done with the use of in-trust accounts where the organization could act as the trustee.

This could be all a pipe-dream but it would pretty much filter out the potentially genuine from the pure scams. Also I could imagine that only investment programs in serious need of capital would even apply as they would be able to put down some $ for the "safety bond".

Ok, I sort of went off on a tangent there. Anyways, I think your black and white way of seeing the world is not exactly proper. Maybe since I haven't played the hyip game (the programs you see in my portfolio are the FIRST online investments I've been involved with) I might lack the cynical outlook that you do, but to put everyone and everything in the same pot is definitely not the way to proceed. I guess it protects you psychologically, and I get the impression that this "they're all scum, they're all ponzi, everyone is evil" mentality serves only that purpose. There is fine line between being cautious and being paranoid to the point of constipation (if you'll pardon the crass language).

That's all I have to say - I think I've said enough lol

NelsonN · 09-30-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allinvain

5: that is the only negative point about EBL..the fact that they don't tell you how they generate their income - not even to the people who are "more involved" (moderators and big investors). Their rationale is that they don't want anyoen to do the same and therefore lose their market "niche". I dunno, take as it is.

This is not entirely true. They don't say what they do with the money now, but they mentioned it once before. If you look back at my earlier posts here and at several other forums I clearly mentioned it when I found out about in my very first Conference Call I attended. Also, Sharon's Opinion wrote about it in her DD as well. The links can be found in earlier posts in this very thread.

They have since gotten smart about not disclosing this and it is a very great move indeed, since talking about that will clearly make this an investment in the eyes of the SEC. We are lending money NOT investing. We need to hammer this point across. So the problem IS if they tell us what they do with the money as opposed to not telling us. We need to stop making excuses about this point. If someone is not interested because they need to know just move on, no sense in explaining this to death; and also on death ears.

And about the trolls, that is exactly what they are; trolls. If they really were not paid they would be writing about it at the EBL forum and not here or on Talk Gold, etc. Instead checkout the "I Got Paid" section at the EBL forum. You will notice plenty people posting about being paid.

Win4life · 09-30-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuk

I've yet to see a HYIP(and that is what EBL is, huge returns, script and all) that didn't start having its most fervent supporters accuse everyone who is even the tiniest bit of skeptical of being "trolls" about the time problems started happening. Make no mistake, EBL is showing all signs of problems.

Restricting your forum to the extent EBL has done is sooooo HYIP admin. HIDE.

No longer accepting PayPal is a bit unusual since most HYIPS never take it in the first place, but any time you stop accepting a certain type of payment you once accepted and it also happens to be the #1 payment processor out there, it's not good. TROUBLE.

Delayed payments. I guess it's all the "trolls" that state their payments are delayed. Of course, the cheerleaders accuse anyone who is mad about not getting paid when they are expecting it to be not even in the program. CHEERLEADING.

Change of payment plans. TYPICAL

Referral Commissions. It isn't enough that EBL can practically print money according to their returns, they need more people to loan them more money. Now why would that be? Seems like financial managers, brokers, VC firms, etc. would be throwing tons of money at EBL when EBL can give a return of a "loan" that is astonomical. Why settle for a puny 10% ROI over a year like other fund managers when you can become a hero by putting your client's money in EBL? UNBELIEVABLE.

No one can intelligently address some very basic points, the first one being how does EBL get around the SEC's official and publicized stance that loaning companies money and expecting large returns is an investment? The other basic point is how does EBL generate such gigantic returns that no one else can(except for other HYIPs apparently...must be that team of "experienced investors" and blah blah blah)? Oh, they can't tell you. Now, does that not sound like say PIPS, CEP, Elite Ventures, GINS, Plexpay, FLO et al? HEARD THIS STORY HUNDREDS OF TIMES ALREADY.

I went to the DD site on EBL. Apparently, how EBL operates around SEC requirements is a "secret," sort of like their forum where info can only be revealed on a limited basis. OOOH....SECRETS!

Folks, REAL businesses do not have to operate under the cover of darkness like EBL attempts to. The whole Roth-IRA bit is rather meaningless as that's very similar to saying "CEP is obviously legal as it is operating" before the SEC moved on them.

I think a lot of EBL members are playing this just like a ponzi, but that is never enough money to keep something going for a while. You need those who are 100% convinced it's "REAL" to bring in enough money to pay back those who joined before those huge returns. Hence, here come the cheerleaders and the troll accusations. If someone is making loads of money with EBL and "knows" how legit it is, why would they care about negative comments? Remember, it's totally legal and REAL, so it is going to survive whether or not some forum posts stating otherwise appear. Every HYIP going down the tubes has the same comments of how negativity is ruining everything.

The explanations of the GoldCoders' script and why it hasn't been replaced in several months along with the PayPal bit are poor. Forget the credit card crap...PayPal allows the "buyer" to dispute any PayPal transaction, regardless of whether a CC was used or not. When the investor...errr.....BUYER says "Well PayPal, I loaned money to some group on the net expecting a 40-50% return in a few months," PayPal is going to cease doing business with that company immediately and freeze funds. That's straight out of their TOS and common sense. Or, it should be common sense. EXCUSES.

There have been a ton of EBL's out there. They are all over the place in the dead and defunct listings. Every sign that was going on with the others like YMMSS, FLO, It4US, PIPS, Elite Ventures, CEP.....they are all present with EBL. It;s only a matter of time before the obvious happens and EBL joins the deceased and people are screaming about Big Brother being the reason or some other BS.

Of course, if I'm wrong, you'll be making tons of money forever so you should be happy.

NUK

I would never take the time to write that much as you :0) Kudos to you !

BUT you said the reason why Gold1, Topgun, Leanon and me are called trolls :

"If someone is making loads of money with EBL and "knows" how legit it is, why would they care about negative comments? Remember, it's totally legal and REAL, so it is going to survive whether or not some forum posts stating otherwise appear. Every HYIP going down the tubes has the same comments of how negativity is ruining everything."

A ponzi can't stand negativity(causes the collapse of the game), that's why chearleaders call us trolls.
If EBL was for REAL then there would be no need for cheerleaders calling us names.

I knew EBL was a ponzi from the beginning and played it as a game accordingly.
You have to be a retard to believe that if you can make those kind of returns, you are going to look for "investors" on ponzi websites

Hope the newbies learned something.

Good luck.

Win4life · 09-30-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NelsonN

This is not entirely true. They don't say what they do with the money now, but they mentioned it once before. If you look back at my earlier posts here and at several other forums I clearly mentioned it when I found out about in my very first Conference Call I attended. Also, Sharon's Opinion wrote about it in her DD as well. The links can be found in earlier posts in this very thread.

They have since gotten smart about not disclosing this and it is a very great move indeed, since talking about that will clearly make this an investment in the eyes of the SEC. We are lending money NOT investing. We need to hammer this point across. So the problem IS if they tell us what they do with the money as opposed to not telling us. We need to stop making excuses about this point. If someone is not interested because they need to know just move on, no sense in explaining this to death; and also on death ears.

And about the trolls, that is exactly what they are; trolls. If they really were not paid they would be writing about it at the EBL forum and not here or on Talk Gold, etc. Instead checkout the "I Got Paid" section at the EBL forum. You will notice plenty people posting about being paid.

Another cheerleader !!

I come here to post because my message is not deleted within minutes like they do on the EBL forum ( do you really think people are idiots ?!)

NelsonN · 09-30-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Win4life

I knew EBL was a ponzi from the beginning and played it as a game accordingly.
You have to be a retard to believe that if you can make those kind of returns, you are going to look for "investors" on ponzi websites

And you have to be a retard to be posting such crap on an investment forum.

You mean to tell me that all fund managers need to do is go to a bank get a loan for a billion dollars and pocket the 15% a year? Damn, call them up dude, because you are brilliant. You my friend have the Midas touch! Although, banks don't lend money to invest. So I guess they really need people to invest and put up the cash. Oops, there goes your thesis.

Sarcasm aside, everything you wrote is simply, bullshit.

Show me proof that you know this is a Ponzi. I was following EBL since they had 70 members. They were below and at that level for over a year. What Ponzi could survive with that many members for so long?

Also, show your documentation to PensCo, the IRA management company that approved them. Otherwise, STFU.

I want proof. Please. I don't want another post with your opinions, I want to be pointed to documentation, as EBL has done with us and with the affidavits they filed with the State of Nevada and PensCO.