Club-FX Recovery Plan on Page 46 at Nobullshit Network Forum

Traderj · 07-20-2007, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by router

I did make a spend to the hackers account. This is not just one of peterb assertions. My e-gold history shows this, but paul roaders name and account were not on the spend when it was confirmed.

Think about it this way, the script is the teller at the bank... the database is the vault where all the money is stored...

When you go into the back and give your money to the teller it does not suddenly appear in your bank account... the teller looks at your information and decides what happens to it... maybe the teller needs to put it in your US account, maybe your checking maybe an investment account... the vault has no idea where you want that money to go until you tell it where to go, which is what the teller does.

Quote:

Now more questions. If the hacker accessed the database and changed the sites e-gold number, then the script would automatically retrieve that number when a spend was made to the site but it would go directly to the hackers e-gold. Is that right? So then the script would not have to have been hacked.

Yes, that is true if in the storage area which is the database the Egold number it was set to retrieve for each action the script called was the hackers number it would go directly to the hacker and the spend in every other way would look legit.. any email needing to go out would be sent and it would be recorded a real transaction...

I am not questioning the fact as to whether someone could hack the database and make spends go to their own account it has been done before and it will be done again...

BUT.... if the spend was going directly from YOUR account to the hacker account, then it would NEVER show up in PB's account..so there would be no need for a hacker to log into his account and make all the transfer that he is claiming were made with his screenshots...

So now he is saying NOT only did the hacker access the database and change the admin egold number to the hacker egold account, which would deposit money directly to the hacker account, but the hacker somehow ALSO managed to get the Admin Egold password to allow himself to login directly.

The only problem with the above is that scripts are written so that the admin egold account password is NOT in the script.. it simply contains what is called a hash that confirms the ability to have egold deposited into the admin account... NOT make spends from it.. and even if somehow he was stupid enough for some unknown reason to have his admin password put in the script/database along with the hash the script would have to be set to auto payments in order to make those payments and then it would only work based on withdrawal requests being made by the hacker account..

So in other words this hacker would have to be a NASA level hacker to do all of this because it would in fact need to alter the script.. if PB was claiming 20% a month than the script would acknowledge that 20% per month per account could be requested.. the hacker would have to go in and alter the script to somehow allow it to PAY HIM all the balances from all the accounts even thought it didn't mean the withdrawal guidelines that were contained in the script...

Sorry for being so long winded again, just trying to make it more clear how completely unlikely it is for what PB is saying to be true... more so we are back to the same old thing.. why doesn't he just prove it?

You knew he was going to come back with the Kalter thingy, but like I said I didn't read anywhere from Kalter that saw PB earning the 20% per month and the bottom line is that is the single most important issue.

You have to get to the root of the matter, if PB wasn't making 20% per month as claimed, but never proven that means he is a liar.. if he lied about that it means that everything else he says then has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.. this my friends is the reason he will NOT allow anyone like Jude or PeterG access (read only) to his trading accounts.. he knows that one single lie will domino on top of him..

If he was then proven to NOT be making that 20% it shows that his whole program was a ponzi to start with, new money paying old debts.. the "hack" was then the perfect way to get out from under.. pay a few payments of 5% to a few people and suddenly it all gets forgotten... pretty smart really for a thief.

J

Traderj · 07-20-2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kibitzer

LOL! Let's see who outlasts who in the ongoing battle between jambutty and traderj at GT. J gets banned and registers under another name, gets banned again...and I'm guessing will pop up again soon enough just to spite you-know-who.

Oh he will win, I don't have the time or interested to keep creating new accounts I only did that one quickly last night as JB thought he was being so smart saying I could only read but not reply so I figured I'd do a quick reply just to prove him wrong yet again

As long as he has the ban power that he does he will always win and in an ironic way believe that somehow makes him right...

Quote:

The irony is that tj and jambutty are actually on the same side, at least as far as the questionable e-gold screenshots PB provided are concerned.

I agree which is all the more confusing to me why JB bans me and allows all the PB sheep to call me names throughout that thread... you would think at the very least he would apply his twisted rules fairly...right, right... Jambutty/fair not something you are likely to ever see.

Quote:

HE HAS NOT PROVIDED ANY PROOF to back up his claims for both his trading and the e-gold hacking since day one!

he never will prove it, he CAN'T that is the bottom line you can't show proof of something that never happened which is why he always comes back with the big poor me, I did show proof but you didn't like it speech... until someone the group at large knows.. PeterG and Jude are the logical choices.. can have read only access to his trading accounts and prove the earnings per month NOTHING else PB says means a hill of beans.. if there was no money in there to start with who cares what else happened...

ybop · 07-20-2007, 03:50 AM

The evidence that PB is a simple scammer is so overwhelming that only the most die hard trusting optimists could believe otherwise. His scam demonstrates how easy it is to steal money from some people and have them praise you for it! He's not particularly competent as far as scammers go - the amateurish obviously doctored screenshots were a dead giveaway.

What I see happening is that in a year or two, he will finish paying off everyone exactly how much they originally deposited. Therefore very few will have made a profit and PB will have had free use of the funds to earn bank interest. PB therefore comes out ahead with a handsome profit from the interest free loans plus his reputation amongst the truly gullible will be greatly enhanced. This means he can take his hero status and start a new program and do it all again.

While not condoning his obvious lack of ethics, it could be argued, he is doing a public service by taking money from fools who clearly have no business possessing such. In the long run perhaps some will learn a little healthy skepticism - or perhaps not.

No one ever lost money underestimating the sense of the average consumer unit.

Traderj · 07-20-2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybop

The evidence that PB is a simple scammer is so overwhelming that only the most die hard trusting optimists could believe otherwise. His scam demonstrates how easy it is to steal money from some people and have them praise you for it! He's not particularly competent as far as scammers go - the amateurish obviously doctored screenshots were a dead giveaway.

You are obviously quite right in many, actually all of the points you make in this post. I do wonder about the mindset of an "investor" of PeterB's that will just blindly believe anything he says when he has to this point offered NO proof of anything. I mean the whole kalter thing was a blessing for him, I do believe PeterG that he checked the IPs to at least confirm that the posts were coming from different machines. But by having Kalter show up at PB's house and then confirm in public he saw the hacking couldn't have been more helpful for PB. Which again begs the question as to why he (PeterB) would just allow some stranger off the street that tracks him down at home to come in his house and then is allowed to look at personal items on this computer.. .very odd no matter how you slice it.

The hard done by PeterB will trudge along doing his very best to pay people off at the rate of 5% whenever the mood strikes him... so if it takes two years as you suggest the sheep will rave about his commitment.. never for second caring that they have basically loaned their money to him for years with NO return at all... simple is as simple does...

Router; I have tried over and over to reply to your PM I hope you don't mind if I reply to you here. I did try to explain the hacking issue in more detail in a previous post. I am not saying what PeterB says happened couldn't have happened I am merely saying that the circumstances that would have to happen in order for them to happen are so impossible to have happen all at once that it defies logic.

let's say for a brief moment that PeterB being the obvious moron he is when it comes to computers really did allow a coder to put his admin password in the database for some reason... why I have no idea as it would NEVER need to be there, but let's assume. Any first year computer science student would know damn well that any passwords or personal info that is online and could possibly be the target of hacking should be encrypted... so now we are not only supposed to believe that PB went against all known logic of coding and had his personal admin password NOT a hash in the software and on top of that he also allowed his coder to leave it in plain text. No encoding. That is sorta like you winning a lottery and on the way home from picking up the cheque stopping to get gas and buying another ticket that wins again... the odds are so beyond belief I don't know how one would go about calculating it.

But just go back for a moment to all the stuff PB said in the beginning, he clearly said the hacker got to HIS account when he moved a bunch of Egold to the account for the purpose of doing a transfer. So obviously the hacker did not only recieve money from the direct deposit of members he had to have PB's personal info to have direct access to his account... unless the wanker put his personal password in plain text somewhere stored in the database... if so he would be the first person probably in history to do so.

I have already rehashed the point of overnight transfers and auto payments and how they work so I won't do it again... suffice to say the way PB has explained the events just don't make any sense to anyone that knows anything about computers and scripts.. add to that the fact that now in GT he is trying to come across as some script and site wizard yet he didn't even know how to protect his own machine or server when they were active..

Jude; I believe you have full personal contact details for PeterB, I was wondering if I had the South African lawyer contact you directly and allowed you to contact him at his office so you could do your own DD to make sure he was legit would you be willing to offer those details? I would not ask for them personally and I would not expect you to give them to me or any other member but I am hoping that you would consider it to a third party lawyer.. which would save me some time in tracking the scammer's details down from other places.

PeterB has proven to be incompetent is so many ways and the crux of the matter is that the he just plainly refuses to offer anything that is REAL proof to the membership at large. I don't know about South African law but I know in many places you can lodge a lien against someone's personal property including their house while you make a financial or civil claim against them. PeterB can of course refuse to comply with those requests but until he does we can legally tie up any and all personal assets he owns or controls, this can be extended to his trading accounts in some cases... it is worth a try to get to the bottom of this.

I think the whole hacking issue has become a red herring that PeterB actually likes having us focus on.

The most important question and really the only one that really matters is, did he actually ever earn 20% in one month? If so how many months.. opening up his trading accounts would tell all the story the members need to know.

If he really did make 20% every month that ClubFX was open then that in my eyes automatically gives him a little more credibility. I don't believe he did which is why he so firm in NOT allowing PeterG or Jude read only access.

If it is proven with trading records that he either never or rarely made the 20% returns he claims, that proves right away he is a liar. That also means that everything else he has ever said now can be called into question and it would also mean that all those sheep that are so determined to back up everything he says will be shown black and white proof that St. Peter lied. So how was he planning to pay them all back their money with those hefty returns when in fact he was not earning that money? That would explain why the "hack" was a godsend for him...and why he won't open the trading accounts, he knows that it's all a house of cards built on the lie that he was earning 20% each and every month...

As soon as you prove that the returns weren't there it then shows how perfectly timed the hack was to save him, add to that the Egold issues at the time and good lord he could not have planned a better time to be hacked. Now why a NASA level hacker would go after his Egold right when Egold was in such trouble and appeared to be possibly closing down makes little sense either, but that's another story...

Ok that is my recap sorry to those I could not reply to in PM sometimes my connection here is Thailand gets very wonky...

J

**sharonsopinion** · 07-20-2007, 05:32 PM

I'd just like to add that even if PB proved that e-gold left his account and went to another account and the script was changed to that other account, there is no proof that the other account belonged to anyone else. It is highly probable that PB set up another e-gold account for the sole purpose of faking a hacker.

Once an admin lies, which is the case in 99% of programs, then they may lie or fake anything. Just remember that most exits are as fake as the program was. Just because they say so, doesn't make it so.

JMO,
Sharon

**Jude** · 07-21-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traderj

You are obviously quite right in many, actually all of the points you make in this post. I do wonder about the mindset of an "investor" of PeterB's that will just blindly believe anything he says when he has to this point offered NO proof of anything. I mean the whole kalter thing was a blessing for him, I do believe PeterG that he checked the IPs to at least confirm that the posts were coming from different machines. But by having Kalter show up at PB's house and then confirm in public he saw the hacking couldn't have been more helpful for PB. Which again begs the question as to why he (PeterB) would just allow some stranger off the street that tracks him down at home to come in his house and then is allowed to look at personal items on this computer.. .very odd no matter how you slice it.

The hard done by PeterB will trudge along doing his very best to pay people off at the rate of 5% whenever the mood strikes him... so if it takes two years as you suggest the sheep will rave about his commitment.. never for second caring that they have basically loaned their money to him for years with NO return at all... simple is as simple does...

Router; I have tried over and over to reply to your PM I hope you don't mind if I reply to you here. I did try to explain the hacking issue in more detail in a previous post. I am not saying what PeterB says happened couldn't have happened I am merely saying that the circumstances that would have to happen in order for them to happen are so impossible to have happen all at once that it defies logic.

let's say for a brief moment that PeterB being the obvious moron he is when it comes to computers really did allow a coder to put his admin password in the database for some reason... why I have no idea as it would NEVER need to be there, but let's assume. Any first year computer science student would know damn well that any passwords or personal info that is online and could possibly be the target of hacking should be encrypted... so now we are not only supposed to believe that PB went against all known logic of coding and had his personal admin password NOT a hash in the software and on top of that he also allowed his coder to leave it in plain text. No encoding. That is sorta like you winning a lottery and on the way home from picking up the cheque stopping to get gas and buying another ticket that wins again... the odds are so beyond belief I don't know how one would go about calculating it.

But just go back for a moment to all the stuff PB said in the beginning, he clearly said the hacker got to HIS account when he moved a bunch of Egold to the account for the purpose of doing a transfer. So obviously the hacker did not only recieve money from the direct deposit of members he had to have PB's personal info to have direct access to his account... unless the wanker put his personal password in plain text somewhere stored in the database... if so he would be the first person probably in history to do so.

I have already rehashed the point of overnight transfers and auto payments and how they work so I won't do it again... suffice to say the way PB has explained the events just don't make any sense to anyone that knows anything about computers and scripts.. add to that the fact that now in GT he is trying to come across as some script and site wizard yet he didn't even know how to protect his own machine or server when they were active..

Jude; I believe you have full personal contact details for PeterB, I was wondering if I had the South African lawyer contact you directly and allowed you to contact him at his office so you could do your own DD to make sure he was legit would you be willing to offer those details? I would not ask for them personally and I would not expect you to give them to me or any other member but I am hoping that you would consider it to a third party lawyer.. which would save me some time in tracking the scammer's details down from other places.

PeterB has proven to be incompetent is so many ways and the crux of the matter is that the he just plainly refuses to offer anything that is REAL proof to the membership at large. I don't know about South African law but I know in many places you can lodge a lien against someone's personal property including their house while you make a financial or civil claim against them. PeterB can of course refuse to comply with those requests but until he does we can legally tie up any and all personal assets he owns or controls, this can be extended to his trading accounts in some cases... it is worth a try to get to the bottom of this.

I think the whole hacking issue has become a red herring that PeterB actually likes having us focus on.

The most important question and really the only one that really matters is, did he actually ever earn 20% in one month? If so how many months.. opening up his trading accounts would tell all the story the members need to know.

If he really did make 20% every month that ClubFX was open then that in my eyes automatically gives him a little more credibility. I don't believe he did which is why he so firm in NOT allowing PeterG or Jude read only access.

If it is proven with trading records that he either never or rarely made the 20% returns he claims, that proves right away he is a liar. That also means that everything else he has ever said now can be called into question and it would also mean that all those sheep that are so determined to back up everything he says will be shown black and white proof that St. Peter lied. So how was he planning to pay them all back their money with those hefty returns when in fact he was not earning that money? That would explain why the "hack" was a godsend for him...and why he won't open the trading accounts, he knows that it's all a house of cards built on the lie that he was earning 20% each and every month...

As soon as you prove that the returns weren't there it then shows how perfectly timed the hack was to save him, add to that the Egold issues at the time and good lord he could not have planned a better time to be hacked. Now why a NASA level hacker would go after his Egold right when Egold was in such trouble and appeared to be possibly closing down makes little sense either, but that's another story...

Ok that is my recap sorry to those I could not reply to in PM sometimes my connection here is Thailand gets very wonky...

J

J, in response to you on why I haven't been doing the things that you mentioned above.

Even if I have disclose his personal details to you, with your lawyer, what good could he have make? I really have no idea what's gonna happen next. Since I've contacted MJB and know that the E-gold lost has been circulated out of the system, I know nothing much could be further done.

As I have mentioned, when Pete passed down the way he traded to me, I know it's never easy to consistently achieve 20% on regular basis. Even myself tried to pull out from CFX at the very end, but greed got me.

Unless your solicitor can let me know what good can come out of releasing his information, I won't do it since I've promised Pete before I'll not do that unless there's some sort of evidence that prove he's absolutely guilty.

Still on my end, I don't believe Peter totally that he's innocent too, giving him the chance to see what good can come out of his refunds to everyone at least.

Conciliator · 07-21-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamButty

By the way – we don’t ban people for having opinions but for serious or continual breaches of the forum rules.

Just thought I'd share this recent gem from TG's little tyrant. It made me laugh, since it shows he's in delusion.

Have a good day all

-Conciliator

Traderj · 07-22-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conciliator

Just thought I'd share this recent gem from TG's little tyrant. It made me laugh, since it shows he's in delusion.

Have a good day all

-Conciliator

There is a great well thought out well presented and very mature post in there now asking why is that the people asking the tough questions seem to get the boot and all the lazy HYIP people are allowed to pretty much do and say as they please... I'm sure JB's answer will be full of nonsense as usual.

Traderj · 07-22-2007, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jude

J, in response to you on why I haven't been doing the things that you mentioned above.

Even if I have disclose his personal details to you, with your lawyer, what good could he have make? I really have no idea what's gonna happen next. Since I've contacted MJB and know that the E-gold lost has been circulated out of the system, I know nothing much could be further done.

Jude,

First of all let me make it very clear I am not promising that anything can be done, but I can tell you the roads that have been traveled to this point are internet roads and somehow somewhere they ALL end up on the real world. that is the place peterb needs to be held accountable in.

ALL Egold spends whether fake or real have to end up at a real live place. Whether it's an exchanger that then coverts the money to world currency or whether it's a debit card somewhere.. the point is it does have a trail. The only way to find that trail is to get the records from Egold then follow the path.

To get the records from Egold you need a court order. To get a court order you need to prove someone was performing a fraud or breaking the law in some other way.

If one were to go to a court and say I want to have a lien put on this person's house for unpaid debts (contractors do it all the time) you would be allowed to do so, you would have to prove to the courts why this money was owed to you, the other party would have to prove that they don't owe you that money.

Peterb's silly little disclaimer on his site will NOT protect him, it has been proven time and time again that those out of the box copy cat TOS and Disclaimers hold no legal weight when there is fraud involved.

So now the next step is to force PeterB in open court to show all his trading records for the time that ClubFX was open and he was openly and in public claiming 20% per month gains that were to be paid back to his investors. If he CAN do that, likely at that point the case would be dismissed in HIS favor and it would be a closed book.. as it should be at that point I would think.

If he can NOT prove those numbers, that brings everything he has said or done into question.. it will also allow the lien to be kept on his house while the court at that point would issue the required order to have Egold open up the records on PeterB's account and then to follow up on the trail of where all the money went and how it left the system.

The might very well find that money, being able to track it all the way though it's departure or they might not. But either way the lien on PeterB's house (& property) becomes the money that if needed the court can take and sell to force him to pay off the money he defrauded from his investors.

Also worth keeping in mind that in many countries, you are not allowed to take money from third parties and invest it without the proper licenses. I am pretty sure PeterB does not have those. Again a silly little disclaimer on a website does NOT allow him to avoid those laws. I don't know what is or isn't legal in South Africa but I do know we can't find out without checking.

So if you would prefer NOT to offer up PB's details to a lawyer I understand and respect that, no hard feelings. But I just wanted to let you know there is always a different way to go about things if people really want answers.

I have NO money invested in ClubFX I simply was offering my help based on past experience I have in areas like this and that sometimes things are not as bleak as they might appear. Either way I will leave it up to you.

Take care,

J

P.S. Might I point out ONE more time that for all this to go away and all the naysayers to be quiet all PeterB has to do is offer up trading records to a trusted and KNOWN third party like Jude or PeterG. Once that truth is or isn't confirmed it makes a lot more of his story possible. The fact that he continues to avoid doing this makes him look more and more guilty with each passing day.

ybop · 07-22-2007, 05:48 AM

I think where the egold is at is irrelevent at this point. The lawyer needs to sue PB for the return of monies. I wouldn't be surprised if he folds as soon as he gets the letter from the lawyer as he has no legal basis for defence.

At to waiting for enough evidence before releasing his details.... how much more evidence do you need? The evidence that PB is a scammer is pretty extensive and should easily be sufficient to justify the release. I was on a jury once and I think if this had been the case where the defendent could easily have provided proof of his innocence but refused to do so without explaining why, the abundance of circumstantial evidence would have been sufficient to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I can see no reason why an innocent person would behave the way he has done.

1. The screenshots are damning.

2. His refusal to allow anyone access to his egold or trading records is damning.

3. His silence on why he refuses is damning.

4. His claim of borrowing $100k from a friend to trade with is very hard to believe. (If he could so easily borrow such, why bother seeking investors online??)

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." - Carl Sagan

He has made such claims yet provided no proof whatsoever.

In the beginning I think we were all ready to cut him some slack assuming that evidence would be provided in due course. However the "evidence" released has only served to damn him further.

I humbly suggest there exists ample justification for the release of his details and suggest you tell him to either provide the simple and easy proof (allow you to access the egold account) or you will be releasing his info.