sensible

Someone,
Poor me??? You just don't get it do you? I'm on this forum for one reason only and that is to TRY TO inform all those people that have lost money to wc, people who are not able to get any information at all exept what is written on this forum. I'm not saying I know exactly what's going on because nobody exept Hannu K and YOU of course knows!!! And do you know what? I don't even think you are a member because people like you who knows everything and who is not willing to risk anything usually don't trust anyone! I'm not saying that's wrong but that's not the way I and many other people want to live their lives. You write that you have figured out that I have sponsored people. WOW!! You are amazing!! How did you figure that out? I have sponsored 2 people and that is my father and my sister and they have not made any money from wc. Do you think I don't care about them and all other people who have lost money? I really don't know what I should be afraid of ? For sponsoring my father?
I have nothing to hide!!!

ensio

Reason why these kind of scams succeed time to time is very simple. Ordinary people will get greedy which will basically blur their minds. Schools should teach basic economic prinsibles. Wincapita promised about 400% annual profit. Money pumped to this club is atleast 50E million. Today police estimated that amount is much higher.

Here's little calculation of how much profit this club would make with 50 million.

50 000 000E / 400% annual profit

Year 1: 250E million.
Year 2: 1.25E billion.
Year 3: 6.25E billion.
Year 4: 31.25E billion.
Year 5: 156.25E billion.
...
Year 10: 488 281E billion.


Finland's budget is about 42E billion. Capital tax for this kind of profit is 28%. So after fifth year members could fund Finland's budjet just paying taxes. And after 10 years all the world's money would be owned by club.

You know, I kind of hope that this club would be real thing. Finland would be very wealthy place to live.

jaskablue

Greetings to everybody, in particular Wayne and Sensible that are giving some important contribution to all readers including me.
First of all let me tell that both of you stated some interesting aspects and I think both of you are in some points correct and with other comments you show that you are victim of the general symptomes, lack of information.

For my side, as a professional in the area please notice that what is written from my side will be classified always as FACTS or RUMORS.

FACTS:

Notice that depending from the legal system of your country of domicile, that can regulate company legislation according to common law or civil law, the practice is the Roman right "in dubbio pro reo" (in english: in case of doubt in favor of the accused).

Neverthless, please notice my previous statement about company in Wyoming.

1. Wincapita, as all informed members should know as written on the
homepage of the company, stated 2 different legal forms:
a) WIF = short form for "Worldwide Investment Foundation, Panama"
b) Worldwide Investment Company Corp., Wyoming

2. The WIF has a board of directors (nominee directors), Panama
foundations law has a singular legislation worldwide cause the foundation's
assets have no beneficiary owner (the assets belong to the foundation),
when the foundation is incorporated (established) there can be an organ
called "Protector" the function of this individual or corporate controlled
position is to protect the assets (more specifically control the assets, the
investment and has the right to change the board of directors at own
discretion, therefore this is the position that holds the most power by
operational means);

3. Worldwide Investment Company Corp., and members see from their
fullfilled money requests was the beneficial owner of the Moneybookers
account;

4. Worldwide Investment Company Corp., was dissolved by an
administrative act by Wyoming Tax Authorities (probably cause forfait
annual tax has not been filed and paid) - We are talking of less
than a USD 500.-- per year;

5. Fact is also that from the moment that company is dissolved (equals to a
liquidation) the company can not continue it's activity as it's officially not
existing anymore and entering new agreements and obligations, transfer
of money or any other operational act can be considered illigal;

6. Therefore, the responsible decisionmakers accepting money or executing
any tipe of transaction in the name of the company did breach the
law and with full intention execute each order (legal or illegal).
I do not state any names as upon now no member nor investor
of WC has any tangible proof of the organisation structure of WC.
That means in other words, H.K. and M. and other people could
be in whatever position of the decisional structure of WC.

7. Further there is to mention WIF shares:

a) Foundations do not have share capital (there are called beneficial
certificates) and therefore they could not be sold as shares;
b) Beneficial certificates: legally represent a donation by a
donor and represents a part of the total assets which
the foundation has received by donation;
c) There is no multiclass shares of a foundation: therefore how was it
possible to Sell A and B Class shares ?
d) Selling shares requires a license (authorized security dealer license or
as a broker (even in Panama, which by the way is not a banana
republic as many still think);
e) issuing shares (new share issue) also requires a license when offered
to the public (distinction between Qualified/Professional Investors and
Public investors, later as well defined as act to sollicit investment of
public savings);
f) Panama requires the issuer to be a bank or an authorized agency,
sorry for all of you but WIF is not figuring on the list of authorized
institutions qualified neither for the security trading or issuing activity;
g) Further there is two other neglected aspects:
- International standards for information requirements in the financial
industry (in other words: minimum information that should be
provided to an investor);
- Further it is required that there a issue prospect (in this case for a
private placement of shares) has been draft and brought to the
attention to potential investors;

8. I can tell you that I know personally the person that has brought some
irregularities to the attention of MB, this was the triggering point of
MB to act immediately and freeze only and alone the accounts of
WC to protect potential customers assets;

9. It is crap that MB froze the accounts on behalf of an inquiry that started
from WC, in fact it seems that for several days tried to reach WC in order
to receive further insight of the business model of Wincapita;

10. Wincapita could do some busines (of what sort ever) thanks to the
trust of the members that deposited their assets (money), the beneficial
owners of the money deposited to be invested is still the customer
and Wincapita had merely the obbligation to act as an asset manager
or at least as a mandatory for the customer (as X license where more
technically comparable to an option).

11. An option (even of a partecipation) should always be related to an
underlying product, market, share, assets or whatsoever, question
from my side is: Why was it so difficult to show openly a performance
report with daily or even weekly, monthly performance ?

12. I know that some guys have made some arrangements with Swiss Banks,
in Lichtenstein, in Norway or elsewere. Is it illigal to have an account in
this country ? Answer: NO, IT IS NOT ! Illigal is: not to declare the
assets, profits and revenues held offshore (offshore = all other countries
others than the country of own tax domicile);

13. From a legal point of view it is not legal obbligation of the offshore banks
to check if the customer fullfills its duties to fill correctly the tax
declaration. Only duty of offshore banks and institutions is to not actively
assist tax evasion, money laundering and terrorism financing;

14. Case Lichtenstein: The German Tax authorities corrupted a bank
employee with a payment of EUR 5'000'000.-- mio to breach banking
secrecy and disclose confidential information about clients. It is a strange
world we are living in, Government that preach always about fighting
against corruption and personal freedom, using money from tax payer to
corrupt people in other countries (is that not anti-costitutional ??).

I'm tired, so I leave your folks with enough information to get your brain overheated for once.....

In god we trust, and hopefully Mr. H.K. and all other people that have caused so much difficult moments to many members are not longer disgracing the reputation of the great Finnish way of be and do business.

Whatever you did Hannu (wether legal or not....) SHAME ON YOU, FROM ALL THE FINNISH PEOPLE YOU BETRAYED NOT ONLY LEAVING THEM WITHOUT INFORMATION (AND PERHAPS WITH A LOSS OF MONEY) BUT HURTING ONE OF THE RARE GIFTS STILL AVAILABLE IN NORTH EUROPE .... TRUST AND FAIRNESS.

Greetings to all of you

JASKABLUE

Someone

Sensible! Yes, I figured out that you have sponsored people. Why? Because you wrote “I invested in wincapita a long time before I sponsored any people and I did make good money long before my sponsoring.” So I don’t understand why you think I am amazing to know that. Have you already forgotten what you have written here?

You also write that you have made “good money” from Wincapita. And why do you recommend the people here to wait for a report to the police? If you have “good news” from Wincapita; that is Wincapita will be reopened and the members will get the money back, then all people who have gone to the police can withdraw the reports!

You are one among all them who have won money. But did you properly declared the money to the tax-authority in your country? So perhaps you want to hide anything. And of course, if so, you try to argue that people here shouldn’t visit a police station. It’s not so amazing to think that?

Yes, poor you! If you don’t understand more than you do, then it’s “poor you”! And I honestly regret that you have recommended your parents and your sister to join Wincapita with their money. I can imagine that there are no good feelings when you think about this. I do hope the amounts are not huge. But do you really recommend them to wait for a report to the police? Are you sure this recommendation is the best for them in the current situation? Please, poor sensible, if you have been wrong one time – when you recommended them to join Wincapita – you can be wrong one time more (when you recommend people to not go to the police). And a comment to your words “I don't even think you are a member…” That’s correct! When I heard about Wincapita with 400-500 percent annual growth, then I understood it was a fraud. So I tried to recommend people to not join.

Your words “I've been a member of wincapita for over 3 years and I'm really not that worried about all this” are frustrating to read. Poor you!

__________________
Someone

anita

Guys, let's work toward a solution here...

As in Vane's case, my sponsor told me Hannu K. was a registered trader and that many members have seen him in person. Since I know my sponsor I didn't have motives to doubt about his word...but now I have many. Also, it has been impossible to reach my sponsor in the last 2 days, maybe doesn't want to show his face.

Has any of the old members seen Hannu K.? Have your sponsors also told you that he was a registered trader?

This is very confusing Thank you to all of you, especially those that have given good information.

sensible

Wayne, I talked to my friend today and he transfered money from his mb account on april 3 and the money was in his bankaccount today!!!

jaskablue

Dear Sensible,

I might agree with you on your friends transfer, I might have transferred money from his own Moneybookers account to his bank account and that might be correct as Wincapita Moneybookers account is frozen.
You may ask your friend when he received money from WC, I believe it's not after the 25.03.2008.... as by then from my information WC accounts have been blocked and no transaction is possible since then from WC.

Please inform correctly as your nationals and other members have a right of information (information=facts that can be proven).

Greetings

Jaskablue

jaskablue

Dear Anita,

I do not know where Hannu Should be registered, if you look under Panama he is not listed as an authorized trader and neither are the companies.
Nevertheless, as a Forex Trader you do not require any registration I can tell you this as I was and I am still a professional trader myself.

On the contrary if you sell securities (as Wincapita did) you are required to be filed with the Security Exchange Commission as an authorized trader.
If anyone has a registration number of H.K., this is not an information that hurts anybody than dear sponsors or members contribute to bring light to this continous doubt many of your fellowmen have.

Greetings

Jaskablue

sensible

jaskablue,
I don't understand what you mean?
Wayne asked a question if there was any members who had taken money out from their mb account, money that was made from wc. Of course my friend hasn't recieved this money from wc after they closed down their site but the money he had left standing on the mb account was made from wc.
What is interesting here is the fact that contrary to what a lot of people have said, it is possible to withdraw money from mb even if the money was made from wc. I also have other friends who can't withdraw funds from mb. Maybe there is a limit on how much money you can withdraw?

jaskablue

It's depending if they are VIP members and authenticated their details.
VIP members have no limits, others can go from max EUR 3000 to max EUR 15000

Sorry but I did not see Wayne's question. Apologeptic

Jaskablue